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New 2019 Specialized 'Shiv Disc'
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Buzz_




Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 372

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As was established by another thread on here, when a bike claims to cut drag by 10%, what they are saying is they force the rider into a more aerodynamic position. i.e. the bike has the same drag as before.

Given everyone is different, it can only be a better position for some people, and a more aero position might not be the best for them over 180km. But that doesn't work on an advertising strapline.

As with wetsuits, the fastest bike is the one that fits you best.

As long as it's red..
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iwaters




Joined: 06 Sep 2016
Posts: 417

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
It's a 'halo' bike. Is the speed-per-$ worth it, highly unlikely. I reckon any decent independent test wouldn't have it any faster than a Speed Concept or P5-6 at common yaw angles. Wasn't the P5X basically the same as the P5? These bikes are all a mediocre position & set-up away from being as fast as a sorted PX Stealth.


Yeah when ST crowdfunded their aero testing day the P5X was ever so slightly better than the standard P5, costing twice as much. The difference was minimal

If peeps can afford to buy it and scoot round 6hr+ IM bike splits I say live and let live. But I'm going to mock them. Because it's one ugly fing bike. Not even its mother could love that
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 17494
Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iwaters wrote:

Yeah when ST crowdfunded their aero testing day the P5X was ever so slightly better than the standard P5, costing twice as much. The difference was minimal


Did they ever publish the results of that, never saw anything, just talk.

I bet an optimised 2008 P2C wouldn't be far off most top-end current bikes. Tri-Rig brakes, PDQ/3T/Tri Rig bars, disc and 80mm FW.
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iwaters




Joined: 06 Sep 2016
Posts: 417

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
iwaters wrote:

Yeah when ST crowdfunded their aero testing day the P5X was ever so slightly better than the standard P5, costing twice as much. The difference was minimal


Did they ever publish the results of that, never saw anything, just talk.


Link to the full white paper here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8RrY_TRtezdc2pYSHJ1cVllUjQ/view
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JaRok2300




Joined: 01 May 2014
Posts: 379
Location: Worcester, UK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mt take-away from that test and the whole debacle surrounding it was to chill out and not worry about the bike at all. (Certainly at my level of performance, if you're a few seconds away from KQ then maybe)

There was so little between the latest and greatest and the "average" old Felt as to be insignificant in the real world. You could make far more difference with your position or minor details like hydration, storage etc. than any of those frames contribute.

I'm happy on my Blade with it's dirty great round headtube and the top tube on the wrong way round, safe in the knowledge I have much lower hanging fruit to concern myself with. I.e. Me.
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 17494
Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iwaters wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
iwaters wrote:

Yeah when ST crowdfunded their aero testing day the P5X was ever so slightly better than the standard P5, costing twice as much. The difference was minimal


Did they ever publish the results of that, never saw anything, just talk.


Link to the full white paper here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8RrY_TRtezdc2pYSHJ1cVllUjQ/view


Thanks for that; might pass on the Ventum then Smile

Shame no Trek SC, but I bet that's right up there.
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TriSam




Joined: 26 Aug 2011
Posts: 1267
Location: Tunbridge Wells

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A cheeky trip to the velodrome to do some testing or even a wind tunnel would be a whole load more than shelling out on a new bike like this.

The difference between the P3 and the P5x is about 8k-10k depending on what setup you buy it in. That's enough to get you good tunnel time, swap out the bars/brakes for some TriRig or something else quick, and have money left over to spend on a trip to an international IM branded event.

I still don't understand who's buying these bikes?!
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 17494
Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TriSam wrote:
I still don't understand who's buying these bikes?!


The same people who buy 150k cars; the wealthy.

I think most of the P5Xs on the market are ex-shop demo bikes too.
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Buzz_




Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 372

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
TriSam wrote:
I still don't understand who's buying these bikes?!


The same people who buy 150k cars; the wealthy.

Is a 1K bike twice as fast as a 500 bike?
What about a 4K bike v. a 2K bike?

There are going to be diminishing returns the more you spend. If you can afford it, then it is up to you how/where you spend your money. Presumably the manufacturers see these bikes much like concept cars at motor shows. It is to show off a few ideas and generate some brand excitement to sell more 'ordinary' bikes.
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure your average Crown Prince cutting about in his Veyron isn't a qualified racing driver. Same with bikes etc
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jayski




Joined: 30 Jul 2018
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
TriSam wrote:
I still don't understand who's buying these bikes?!


The same people who buy 150k cars; the wealthy.

I think most of the P5Xs on the market are ex-shop demo bikes too.


Yep, used by shop owners or staff - those shops that have bottomless budgets (those owned by Mike Ashley or city boys who want a play thing)
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Poet.




Joined: 06 Aug 2013
Posts: 216

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
I'm pretty sure your average Crown Prince cutting about in his Veyron isn't a qualified racing driver


Laughing

No Emirate would be seen in one of those old things...

...all about the Divo now. Even the Chiron is so last year Wink
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TriSam




Joined: 26 Aug 2011
Posts: 1267
Location: Tunbridge Wells

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did anyone see how badly the fuel/hydration setup worked for Lucy Charles yesterday? The lid popped off pretty early into the ride and was flapping about in the win, probably ruining all aerodynamic gains.

Then while she was trying to add her special needs nutrition to the bladder behind the saddle, she dropped it.

Not a great advert Very Happy
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PCP




Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 1841
Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with the flappy flap.

The bottle behind was entirely her fault though. It was just going in a cage and she cocked it up.
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TriSam




Joined: 26 Aug 2011
Posts: 1267
Location: Tunbridge Wells

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PCP wrote:
Agree with the flappy flap.

The bottle behind was entirely her fault though. It was just going in a cage and she cocked it up.


Ahh I thought she was trying to fill up the reservoir like this:

https://gyazo.com/6680ae8ad32f1d9b8c456965e55a2ec0
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