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More fast or further?

 
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AndyS..




Joined: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 4297
Location: Gotham

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:30 am    Post subject: More fast or further? Reply with quote

It's been so long since I did any proper training I've forgotten what to do! Smile

The aim is faster 5k times, I can do 4:30 per kilometer for three kilometers then I have to slow down and balls up my run. My current 5k Parkrun PB is 22:50 so I need to be around 4:30, give or take, to beat that time.

So the question is, run longer and slow or more 4:30 km's? I have the potential pace but not the endurance to hold it.

Any advice appreciated.
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FatPom




Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 5063
Location: My happy place

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My fastest ever 5km was 18.19 but that was years ago. Post spinal issues my best is 20.19 ut I'm usually anywhere between that and 21.10.

I tend to do 3 runs a week. A LSD 90min plus, a mid tempo 45-60 min (approx 5min/km pace) and a speed session. The speed session is usually 5-7 reps of 4.10/km with 2mins very easy pace in between. I do a 8-10 min warm up.

Seems to work.

Today I have a bit of a weird LSD run. Plan was for 2hrs, so I ran 70mins at 5.40-5.50 pace, then joined Park Run and did a 22.00, then did another 30 mins at 5.40 pace. Wouldn't recommend it every week. Very Happy
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jibberjim




Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 8251
Location: Kingston

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:12 pm    Post subject: Re: More fast or further? Reply with quote

AndyS.. wrote:
It's been so long since I did any proper training I've forgotten what to do! Smile

The aim is faster 5k times, I can do 4:30 per kilometer for three kilometers then I have to slow down and balls up my run. My current 5k Parkrun PB is 22:50 so I need to be around 4:30, give or take, to beat that time.

So the question is, run longer and slow or more 4:30 km's? I have the potential pace but not the endurance to hold it.

Any advice appreciated.


Is that all you're interested in? run as many times a week as you can without injury not running for longer than 30 ish minutes, whatever pace you feel like on the day, sometimes fast, sometimes easy, never push beyond what is comfortable outside of races.
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AndyS..




Joined: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 4297
Location: Gotham

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks people, much appreciated. I joined a running club for old folks and they run twice in the week so I've been running with them around the streets but it seems a bit random and without purpose, it's just running around the streets, anything from 6 to 12k depending on who drew up the map that day.

I might head back out to the bridle paths I used to explore and just run for a bit. Hopefully it's not too muddy (although I suspect it is!).

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tuckandgo




Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 360

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:58 pm    Post subject: Re: More fast or further? Reply with quote

AndyS.. wrote:
It's been so long since I did any proper training I've forgotten what to do! Smile

The aim is faster 5k times, I can do 4:30 per kilometer for three kilometers then I have to slow down and balls up my run. My current 5k Parkrun PB is 22:50 so I need to be around 4:30, give or take, to beat that time.

So the question is, run longer and slow or more 4:30 km's? I have the potential pace but not the endurance to hold it.

Any advice appreciated.


How about a bit of everything?! Smile

Okay, I know that's not helpful.
But a few ideas (pulled out of my my triathlon training but I have still run PB' from that.)

You need more
- speed
- threshold endurance
- general endurance will helpful

I would suggest
1. throwing in some speed work (say 10 lots of 30seconds at 95% (n.b. NOT 100% they are for leg speed, not busting your anaerobic system, based on what you have said anything at 4/km or faster would be fine)

2. Do longer fartlek at your target pace. So say 3*10mins, with 5 mins rest (increase interval time/decrease rest as it gets more comfortable) at 4.30/km. Again, at target pace, this is not 3*10mins as fast as you can go.

3. I'd do some runs of 45mins-1hour, easy pace but building, either an out and back (the back being faster) or just a 10minutes hard running at the end.


2 and 3 will help you sustain your pace before you get tired and help you sustain your pace when you are tired.

GL
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Jgav




Joined: 06 Dec 2016
Posts: 261

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Based on the responses given, it's either or both run more or run with more intensity. The consistent message is run more.

I like the idea of building consistency and easy mileage by adding in a couple of extra 30 min easy runs. Then make sure you are doing a LSD run (45-60 minutes?) run once a week. You can add in tempo/speed work if you can take it without getting injured, if not, just add in more easy runs.

Oh and if you read slowtwitch much...you're too fat to be a runner, go lose weight until you are skeletal. [pink]
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 15303
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Build up to multiple km reps of faster than target pace then gradually reduce the interval...

Rotate with multiple, shorter distance, sets of strength endurance reps and gradually reduce the interval

Threshold runs of gradually progressive distance at second turn point

Endurance runs at first turn point, increasing distance

Active recovery in all cases and include approprite drills in warm up, recovery and cool down...

S and C as necessary to support training load and/or redress biomechanical issues
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